I was lent a book once titled 'Is God Green?' The opening chapter was all about how other religions and world views are wrong. In the section on animism, the author explained that animism does not place humans at the centre of things, there is no special place or plan for them, so that's clearly wrong because humans are special and god loves them... I stopped reading at this point, thinking this book is written by and for idiots. The reason I am attracted to animism is that it doesn't put humans at the centre of everything. But perhaps the author (Lionel Windsor, though I can't find the book itself any more, it must have been returned to it's owner) was actually representing a fairly mainstream idea, or not even idea, maybe more of an assumption. People are more important than all other beings, because we are people. That sloppy.
That is not to say that this is the standpoint of most Christians, who I know are not idiots and would not make such a stupid kind of argument.
I am liking your explanation of the situation in terms of power dynamics, it is very practical and realistic. Solutions, (escapes) are not easy to see, and I wouldn't even try to think about it in terms of the saola, since you have already worked so hard and come up against all the obstacles already.
But how about we think about all the ways in which people are not special or more worthy and important than all other beings? I think there's a logical argument to be made there, but I'm not sure if that is what's needed. Logical arguments may not affect the power structures very much... Probably as you suggest what is really needed is a lot of money. A billionaire benefactor. I suppose they are rather hard to get hold of. Although I work in an art gallery, which attracts the kind of people who can spend £800 on a painting on a whim, which always blows my mind.
Well comparison with an art gallery is apt. It's hardly original to point out that it's strange and not a little disturbing to point out how much art is dependent on the whims of rich people. Of course, if you're not dependent on rich people buying your work, you're generally dependent on bureaucratic form filling. It's the same for us and, like artists, I think we have a strong sense that it shouldn't be that way. Only for us it's newer. Survival of animal species didn't use to be dependent on rich people or bureaucratic institutions until relatively recently and it still seems mad that it is, rather than merely obvious.
I think the idea that humans are special is sometimes an assumption. Often an assumption that will disappear if you look at it straight on but still very active nonetheless. On the other hand it's certainly *a* mainstream Christian view that this is a truth not to be questioned. So I'm not sure you're right that most Christians wouldn't make this argument. I think that, if you do believe humans are special and the brute creation is simply means to the perfection of persons (https://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=812) then it takes away the disturbing nature of the power imbalance; that's how things are *supposed* to be.
Of course the same thing was done - with a lot less grounding in longer traditions of Christian thought - to justify power imbalances within humanity. The Old Testament, of course, can present such power imbalances as part of God's plan precisely because they oppress, humiliate and kill the ones who are *really* the special people with a role in God's plan...
...to me it looks like this is all unmoored; that the value of every variable can jump between infinity and minus infinity without warning. So I talk about power dynamics and not 'specialness' or 'worth' or 'importance' because they seem to be clear. Saying 'these disturbing power imbalances are part of God's plan" does seem to me like it's dodging the exact hit we ought to be taking. But I can't cite Thomas Aquinas in favour of that contention and maybe I'll run into Jesus and He'll tell me Aquinas is right. Or, more likely, that it's not really my concern. At the moment, though, such arguments seem to me like the opposite of what I think spirituality is about.
Sort of glad I don’t have time to make a mess of a comment as I have to go out and feed the animals.
But this series has given me so much to think about, thank you.
That is actually a pretty good comment!
I was lent a book once titled 'Is God Green?' The opening chapter was all about how other religions and world views are wrong. In the section on animism, the author explained that animism does not place humans at the centre of things, there is no special place or plan for them, so that's clearly wrong because humans are special and god loves them... I stopped reading at this point, thinking this book is written by and for idiots. The reason I am attracted to animism is that it doesn't put humans at the centre of everything. But perhaps the author (Lionel Windsor, though I can't find the book itself any more, it must have been returned to it's owner) was actually representing a fairly mainstream idea, or not even idea, maybe more of an assumption. People are more important than all other beings, because we are people. That sloppy.
That is not to say that this is the standpoint of most Christians, who I know are not idiots and would not make such a stupid kind of argument.
I am liking your explanation of the situation in terms of power dynamics, it is very practical and realistic. Solutions, (escapes) are not easy to see, and I wouldn't even try to think about it in terms of the saola, since you have already worked so hard and come up against all the obstacles already.
But how about we think about all the ways in which people are not special or more worthy and important than all other beings? I think there's a logical argument to be made there, but I'm not sure if that is what's needed. Logical arguments may not affect the power structures very much... Probably as you suggest what is really needed is a lot of money. A billionaire benefactor. I suppose they are rather hard to get hold of. Although I work in an art gallery, which attracts the kind of people who can spend £800 on a painting on a whim, which always blows my mind.
Well comparison with an art gallery is apt. It's hardly original to point out that it's strange and not a little disturbing to point out how much art is dependent on the whims of rich people. Of course, if you're not dependent on rich people buying your work, you're generally dependent on bureaucratic form filling. It's the same for us and, like artists, I think we have a strong sense that it shouldn't be that way. Only for us it's newer. Survival of animal species didn't use to be dependent on rich people or bureaucratic institutions until relatively recently and it still seems mad that it is, rather than merely obvious.
I think the idea that humans are special is sometimes an assumption. Often an assumption that will disappear if you look at it straight on but still very active nonetheless. On the other hand it's certainly *a* mainstream Christian view that this is a truth not to be questioned. So I'm not sure you're right that most Christians wouldn't make this argument. I think that, if you do believe humans are special and the brute creation is simply means to the perfection of persons (https://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=812) then it takes away the disturbing nature of the power imbalance; that's how things are *supposed* to be.
Of course the same thing was done - with a lot less grounding in longer traditions of Christian thought - to justify power imbalances within humanity. The Old Testament, of course, can present such power imbalances as part of God's plan precisely because they oppress, humiliate and kill the ones who are *really* the special people with a role in God's plan...
...to me it looks like this is all unmoored; that the value of every variable can jump between infinity and minus infinity without warning. So I talk about power dynamics and not 'specialness' or 'worth' or 'importance' because they seem to be clear. Saying 'these disturbing power imbalances are part of God's plan" does seem to me like it's dodging the exact hit we ought to be taking. But I can't cite Thomas Aquinas in favour of that contention and maybe I'll run into Jesus and He'll tell me Aquinas is right. Or, more likely, that it's not really my concern. At the moment, though, such arguments seem to me like the opposite of what I think spirituality is about.